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	<title>Comments on: counsel to the church</title>
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		<title>By: Margie Miller</title>
		<link>http://mattfrizzellonline.com/2010/01/18/counsel-to-the-church/#comment-566</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Margie Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattfrizzellonline.com/?p=535#comment-566</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We are a small congregation of 32 here at Crossroads Community of Christ. However, don&#039;t get the idea that we don&#039;t do mission. We do...in a big way for our size.!  Most of the time we have from 6 to 16 in attendance but several years ago we decided we would do mission anyhow.  We are limited by being located in the country between two communities but we do everything we can anyhow. 
 
We do the Samaritan&#039;s Purse Christmas Boxes project every year and pack a couple of dozen or more shoe boxes of holiday gifts to be sent overseas to poor countries.  We have done this for five years.  
 
We also contribute $100 a month to the FAST program in Independence, Kansas and $100. a month to the Genesis program in Coffeyville, Kansas.  These two programs help with rent, utilities and food for families in need.  We have done this for five years. The past two years we have also contributed $100. a month to help pay for  medications for people who come to the Montgomery County Medical Clinic, a clinic providing low cost health care for people without insurance in both Coffeyville and Independence, Kansas.    
 
Through Outreach International, we help support a school in the Dominican Republic. We have done this for twelve years though for the first ten years it was a Jamaican school.
 
We buy school supplies for the Caney, Kansas,  elementary school every fall. We have done this for six years.  
 
We keep a food basket in our foyer for needy families who need food.  
 
One couple are active in the PINCH (People For Institutional and Community Harmony) organization, an organization that promotes racial justice and harmony in the community.  
 
Our people participate in all sorts of community projects. One woman heads up a Relay for Life in Independence, Kansas, and serves on the board for the American Cancer Society. one serves on the board of the Montgomery County Medical Clinic.  We have a couple who have been involved in the two community&#039;s ministerial alliances for thirteen years.  One of our members has served as president of the Independence, Kansas Ministerial Alliance and another has served as president of the Chanute, Kansas Ministerial Alliance.  One member is the secretary-treasurer of the Coffeyville Ministerial Alliance. 

The Independence Alliance and the Coffeyville Alliance cooperated during the massive 2007 flood in southeast Kansas and worked to bring together the communities to help those who lost everything in that flood.  They worked to set up a store where people could get household goods and clothing to replace those they lost. Two members worked on committees as chaplains on that occasion. One couple serves on the board of directors for the senior center in Neodesha, Kansas and this same couple organized a parade and community dinner for that community for Veterans Day last year.  

One woman is a Hospice Volunteer.  
 
Our philosophy is that we may be small but we still want to make an impact on our communities.   I believe we worry too much about things we cannot change and don&#039;t worry enough about the ones we can.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are a small congregation of 32 here at Crossroads Community of Christ. However, don&#8217;t get the idea that we don&#8217;t do mission. We do&#8230;in a big way for our size.!  Most of the time we have from 6 to 16 in attendance but several years ago we decided we would do mission anyhow.  We are limited by being located in the country between two communities but we do everything we can anyhow. </p>
<p>We do the Samaritan&#8217;s Purse Christmas Boxes project every year and pack a couple of dozen or more shoe boxes of holiday gifts to be sent overseas to poor countries.  We have done this for five years.  </p>
<p>We also contribute $100 a month to the FAST program in Independence, Kansas and $100. a month to the Genesis program in Coffeyville, Kansas.  These two programs help with rent, utilities and food for families in need.  We have done this for five years. The past two years we have also contributed $100. a month to help pay for  medications for people who come to the Montgomery County Medical Clinic, a clinic providing low cost health care for people without insurance in both Coffeyville and Independence, Kansas.    </p>
<p>Through Outreach International, we help support a school in the Dominican Republic. We have done this for twelve years though for the first ten years it was a Jamaican school.</p>
<p>We buy school supplies for the Caney, Kansas,  elementary school every fall. We have done this for six years.  </p>
<p>We keep a food basket in our foyer for needy families who need food.  </p>
<p>One couple are active in the PINCH (People For Institutional and Community Harmony) organization, an organization that promotes racial justice and harmony in the community.  </p>
<p>Our people participate in all sorts of community projects. One woman heads up a Relay for Life in Independence, Kansas, and serves on the board for the American Cancer Society. one serves on the board of the Montgomery County Medical Clinic.  We have a couple who have been involved in the two community&#8217;s ministerial alliances for thirteen years.  One of our members has served as president of the Independence, Kansas Ministerial Alliance and another has served as president of the Chanute, Kansas Ministerial Alliance.  One member is the secretary-treasurer of the Coffeyville Ministerial Alliance. </p>
<p>The Independence Alliance and the Coffeyville Alliance cooperated during the massive 2007 flood in southeast Kansas and worked to bring together the communities to help those who lost everything in that flood.  They worked to set up a store where people could get household goods and clothing to replace those they lost. Two members worked on committees as chaplains on that occasion. One couple serves on the board of directors for the senior center in Neodesha, Kansas and this same couple organized a parade and community dinner for that community for Veterans Day last year.  </p>
<p>One woman is a Hospice Volunteer.  </p>
<p>Our philosophy is that we may be small but we still want to make an impact on our communities.   I believe we worry too much about things we cannot change and don&#8217;t worry enough about the ones we can.</p>
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		<title>By: Margie Miller</title>
		<link>http://mattfrizzellonline.com/2010/01/18/counsel-to-the-church/#comment-565</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Margie Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattfrizzellonline.com/?p=535#comment-565</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The US church now has less than 110-120 thousand known baptized members,&quot;

The last number I saw was 39,000 in North America.  But as mother Teresa often said,  &quot;Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time and always start with the person nearest you.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The US church now has less than 110-120 thousand known baptized members,&#8221;</p>
<p>The last number I saw was 39,000 in North America.  But as mother Teresa often said,  &#8220;Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time and always start with the person nearest you.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: FireTag</title>
		<link>http://mattfrizzellonline.com/2010/01/18/counsel-to-the-church/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FireTag]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 00:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattfrizzellonline.com/?p=535#comment-471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with BTC&#039;s points. The devil is always in the details.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with BTC&#8217;s points. The devil is always in the details.</p>
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		<title>By: bewarethechicken</title>
		<link>http://mattfrizzellonline.com/2010/01/18/counsel-to-the-church/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bewarethechicken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattfrizzellonline.com/?p=535#comment-470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Please see my blog for some more of my thoughts on the Counsel and its implications.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please see my blog for some more of my thoughts on the Counsel and its implications.</p>
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		<title>By: FireTag</title>
		<link>http://mattfrizzellonline.com/2010/01/18/counsel-to-the-church/#comment-461</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FireTag]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattfrizzellonline.com/?p=535#comment-461</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BTC:

Joanna Brooks (Mormon Girl) put up a post over at Mormon Matters a few days ago where she linked to the daily Gallup tracking poll summary for all of 2009 (published on January 10, 2010. The link is &quot;http://www.gallup.com/poll/125021/mormons-conservative-major-religious-group.aspx&quot; if you&#039;d like to read the whole Gallup piece on the religious/political party/political philosophy of various religious classifications. 

It has some surprises about how the political spectrum breaks down by religions, but probably demonstrates much about why America is a center-right country.

I took the data in the first Gallup table and computed a &quot;net conservative %&quot; score by ignoring the self-identified moderates among the 7 religious classifications listed by Gallup. The results:

Mormons +41%
Protestants +30%
Catholics +20%
Islam -7%
Non-Abrahamic Faiths -19%
Non-Religious -21%
Jedaism -23%

American Chrisitianity is mainstream America, and American Christianity self-identifies as much more conservative than liberal.

Interestingly, American Jews are more liberal than any other faith groups, and Islam lies at the middle of the spectrum. Although Mormons are the most conservative major religion (i.e., large enough to show up even in the large Gallup aggregated data) they are more like the other Christians than the other Christians are like any non-Christian group.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTC:</p>
<p>Joanna Brooks (Mormon Girl) put up a post over at Mormon Matters a few days ago where she linked to the daily Gallup tracking poll summary for all of 2009 (published on January 10, 2010. The link is &#8220;http://www.gallup.com/poll/125021/mormons-conservative-major-religious-group.aspx&#8221; if you&#8217;d like to read the whole Gallup piece on the religious/political party/political philosophy of various religious classifications. </p>
<p>It has some surprises about how the political spectrum breaks down by religions, but probably demonstrates much about why America is a center-right country.</p>
<p>I took the data in the first Gallup table and computed a &#8220;net conservative %&#8221; score by ignoring the self-identified moderates among the 7 religious classifications listed by Gallup. The results:</p>
<p>Mormons +41%<br />
Protestants +30%<br />
Catholics +20%<br />
Islam -7%<br />
Non-Abrahamic Faiths -19%<br />
Non-Religious -21%<br />
Jedaism -23%</p>
<p>American Chrisitianity is mainstream America, and American Christianity self-identifies as much more conservative than liberal.</p>
<p>Interestingly, American Jews are more liberal than any other faith groups, and Islam lies at the middle of the spectrum. Although Mormons are the most conservative major religion (i.e., large enough to show up even in the large Gallup aggregated data) they are more like the other Christians than the other Christians are like any non-Christian group.</p>
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		<title>By: bewarethechicken</title>
		<link>http://mattfrizzellonline.com/2010/01/18/counsel-to-the-church/#comment-460</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bewarethechicken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattfrizzellonline.com/?p=535#comment-460</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think your statistics about Americans being majority-coservative are reflective of recent polling FireTag - but I do acknowledge that, as a whole the US is far more conservative than pretty much any non-muslim country.

I suppose it&#039;s a matter of defining the label of Western conservatives, but I think that Western religious conservatives, with their notions of the afterlife, salvation, Christology, scripture, are far more aligned with the Community of Christ now, than when we were touting communal living, Book of Mormon, multi-tierd glories, etc.

As our theology becomes more &quot;mainstream&quot; I believe that mainstream reflects more of the Western conservative theology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think your statistics about Americans being majority-coservative are reflective of recent polling FireTag &#8211; but I do acknowledge that, as a whole the US is far more conservative than pretty much any non-muslim country.</p>
<p>I suppose it&#8217;s a matter of defining the label of Western conservatives, but I think that Western religious conservatives, with their notions of the afterlife, salvation, Christology, scripture, are far more aligned with the Community of Christ now, than when we were touting communal living, Book of Mormon, multi-tierd glories, etc.</p>
<p>As our theology becomes more &#8220;mainstream&#8221; I believe that mainstream reflects more of the Western conservative theology.</p>
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		<title>By: FireTag</title>
		<link>http://mattfrizzellonline.com/2010/01/18/counsel-to-the-church/#comment-458</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FireTag]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattfrizzellonline.com/?p=535#comment-458</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BTC:

Your choice is certainly understandable to me. I would disagree only with the phrase &quot;becoming&quot; more aligned with Western conservatives. To me it seems less aligned with Western conservatives than at any point in its history, though perhaps more conservative when Western and third world conservatives are added together.

You&#039;ve said things from time to time that suggest your early church experiences were outside America. Is that so? If so, you may be experiencing deep surprised at how conservative a country America actually is compared to Canada or Western Europe, for example.

Good or bad, Americans are majority-conservative.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTC:</p>
<p>Your choice is certainly understandable to me. I would disagree only with the phrase &#8220;becoming&#8221; more aligned with Western conservatives. To me it seems less aligned with Western conservatives than at any point in its history, though perhaps more conservative when Western and third world conservatives are added together.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve said things from time to time that suggest your early church experiences were outside America. Is that so? If so, you may be experiencing deep surprised at how conservative a country America actually is compared to Canada or Western Europe, for example.</p>
<p>Good or bad, Americans are majority-conservative.</p>
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		<title>By: FireTag</title>
		<link>http://mattfrizzellonline.com/2010/01/18/counsel-to-the-church/#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FireTag]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattfrizzellonline.com/?p=535#comment-457</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But isn&#039;t &quot;not playing well with others&quot; exactly what WE do when we presume that unity in diversity is to center around the 1/10,000th of Christianity that is comprised by our denomination?

And does God think that Christianity is the only important part of His community, when Christianity might be less than 1/3 of the planetary population (with a generous definition of being involved in Christianity)?

If we think God&#039;s work centers in us, we ought to be able to give reasons. What does this denomination offer the planetary civilization that will become Zion? After all, we were formed from people who LEFT other denominations in the first place. Those denominations could (and probably DID) also argue that people should stay in the denominations despite their differences.

We need to constantly check ourselves to be sure we are focused on Christ, not denomination, in order to build the Kingdom.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But isn&#8217;t &#8220;not playing well with others&#8221; exactly what WE do when we presume that unity in diversity is to center around the 1/10,000th of Christianity that is comprised by our denomination?</p>
<p>And does God think that Christianity is the only important part of His community, when Christianity might be less than 1/3 of the planetary population (with a generous definition of being involved in Christianity)?</p>
<p>If we think God&#8217;s work centers in us, we ought to be able to give reasons. What does this denomination offer the planetary civilization that will become Zion? After all, we were formed from people who LEFT other denominations in the first place. Those denominations could (and probably DID) also argue that people should stay in the denominations despite their differences.</p>
<p>We need to constantly check ourselves to be sure we are focused on Christ, not denomination, in order to build the Kingdom.</p>
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		<title>By: bewarethechicken</title>
		<link>http://mattfrizzellonline.com/2010/01/18/counsel-to-the-church/#comment-456</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bewarethechicken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattfrizzellonline.com/?p=535#comment-456</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The only part you may have misunderstood is the notion that somehow I&#039;ve taken the &quot;high road&quot;. I certainly don&#039;t feel that way and I make no claim it is the &quot;right thing to do&quot; for everyone.

I appreciate that unity in diversity is not that we all think the same.  It is, as you say, valuing one another because of our difference, not in spite of them.  I feel the Community of Christ is not a place where that occurs, at least not at the policy level where it counts.  This is one of the basic tenants, for me, that drives me to seek out a faith community that does value diversity for diversity&#039;s sake.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only part you may have misunderstood is the notion that somehow I&#8217;ve taken the &#8220;high road&#8221;. I certainly don&#8217;t feel that way and I make no claim it is the &#8220;right thing to do&#8221; for everyone.</p>
<p>I appreciate that unity in diversity is not that we all think the same.  It is, as you say, valuing one another because of our difference, not in spite of them.  I feel the Community of Christ is not a place where that occurs, at least not at the policy level where it counts.  This is one of the basic tenants, for me, that drives me to seek out a faith community that does value diversity for diversity&#8217;s sake.</p>
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		<title>By: Blair</title>
		<link>http://mattfrizzellonline.com/2010/01/18/counsel-to-the-church/#comment-455</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Blair]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mattfrizzellonline.com/?p=535#comment-455</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Beware...,
While I understand the perspective that we can only put up with so much so long and that at some point we feel we just don&#039;t have any other alternative than to move away, I am not sure it&#039;s the right thing to do.  I am not sure it&#039;s the high road.  
From what I understand of the first century Jesus and Judaism at that time, his desire was not to start a new faith movement, for that matter neither was Luther during the Reformation.  Rather I think it was to reform the old, to allow them to see that what they had turned into was not what was intended.
It seems to me from what I understand you to say, and please correct me if I am not hearing you,  is that it&#039;s ok to walk away, to join up with something else, or perhaps even start something new.  
I think it is that response that now has Christianity being represented in some 30,000 plus denominations.  From one perspective they could say that this represents all the various parts of the body that Paul talks about.  From another perspective one could say that the body of the chruch is highly fractured.  I could go along with the former if the 30,000 plus all played well together, supported one another and all that stuff that is necessary for the body to be well.  But in my understanding that is not the case, rather the later, fractured scenario is the case. 
Each differing part of the body has taken its toys, gifts and whatever and said &quot;Now we are the body, and the rest of you are someway in error of what it means to be the church.&quot;  We/they don&#039;t call it &quot;One True Church&quot; anymore, but it sure does seem to play out that way in many instances, granted not all, but many.
Because I see the family unit as a micro scale Zion, I think it is also the perspective that I understnad you to promote that allows so many covenant commitments to be broken, i.e. marriage.  Rather than find unity in our diversity, which is more often than not tough work, we go somewhere else and try that out, if that doesn&#039;t work we go somewhere else.
I know in my own marriage there have been times when I have checked out emotionally and wondered what I am doing waking up next to this person day after day.  When I reflected on that, I discovered it was my covenant with God that kept me there and then called me to check back in to this thing we call marriage.  Many in the straight world don&#039;t get this when it comes to LGBT relationships and just how important the public marriage covenant can be.
Unity in diversity is not unity in that we all think the same or have something in common.  Unity in diversity is that we value one another because of our differences not in spite of them.  To me that is what it means to be the body of Christ.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beware&#8230;,<br />
While I understand the perspective that we can only put up with so much so long and that at some point we feel we just don&#8217;t have any other alternative than to move away, I am not sure it&#8217;s the right thing to do.  I am not sure it&#8217;s the high road.<br />
From what I understand of the first century Jesus and Judaism at that time, his desire was not to start a new faith movement, for that matter neither was Luther during the Reformation.  Rather I think it was to reform the old, to allow them to see that what they had turned into was not what was intended.<br />
It seems to me from what I understand you to say, and please correct me if I am not hearing you,  is that it&#8217;s ok to walk away, to join up with something else, or perhaps even start something new.<br />
I think it is that response that now has Christianity being represented in some 30,000 plus denominations.  From one perspective they could say that this represents all the various parts of the body that Paul talks about.  From another perspective one could say that the body of the chruch is highly fractured.  I could go along with the former if the 30,000 plus all played well together, supported one another and all that stuff that is necessary for the body to be well.  But in my understanding that is not the case, rather the later, fractured scenario is the case.<br />
Each differing part of the body has taken its toys, gifts and whatever and said &#8220;Now we are the body, and the rest of you are someway in error of what it means to be the church.&#8221;  We/they don&#8217;t call it &#8220;One True Church&#8221; anymore, but it sure does seem to play out that way in many instances, granted not all, but many.<br />
Because I see the family unit as a micro scale Zion, I think it is also the perspective that I understnad you to promote that allows so many covenant commitments to be broken, i.e. marriage.  Rather than find unity in our diversity, which is more often than not tough work, we go somewhere else and try that out, if that doesn&#8217;t work we go somewhere else.<br />
I know in my own marriage there have been times when I have checked out emotionally and wondered what I am doing waking up next to this person day after day.  When I reflected on that, I discovered it was my covenant with God that kept me there and then called me to check back in to this thing we call marriage.  Many in the straight world don&#8217;t get this when it comes to LGBT relationships and just how important the public marriage covenant can be.<br />
Unity in diversity is not unity in that we all think the same or have something in common.  Unity in diversity is that we value one another because of our differences not in spite of them.  To me that is what it means to be the body of Christ.</p>
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